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Languages :: General :: Not a pro, just a user. I get gazillions of java errors and don't know why or how to fix
By: fastermx	Date: 16/09/2003 00:00:00	Points: 75	Status: Answered Quality : Excellent
Sites for java give no help to people who just want to use it in their browsers. We're adrift. I've tried Sun and Quicktime javas, and have reverted to the one with my Windows 98 SE. None of them work consistently, and all give me these error messages, and none of them address help or advice to users. I've uninstalled and reinstalled the different javas, and even removed my browser and reinstalled it. No improvement. They don't even give you much help in how to install this stuff, so my installation may be faulty. You're just supposed to know how to install it. I'm going BERZERK! This isn't urgent because I've lived with it for ages, but it ought not to be difficult for a Java pro to figure out, so I've given it low points. I don't want to learn Java. I dont want to have to learn it in order to get java_popmeup slide shows and interactives at my homepage, NY Times, to function. I just want java that functions. I use the IE6 browser. My permissions are set to medium, but I ask for a lot of prompting, because on some sites I wouldn't want any script, of any kind, to execute. Every time I see a slide show or interactive that I'm dying to view, I can't - I get a *@$%& java error. I went to a site today where every single link gave me TWO java error messages, and just from hovering the cursor over the link. I couldn't navigate the site at all. Needless to say, I HATE JAVA! They have a "console," but nothing, anywhere, explains what all those options mean, or what they do, or how to use them. You're just supposed to know. Right. I try every option on the console, and still get the error messages. The messages always say there is an error "on the page." Does that mean it isn't in my java configurations or program? Why, then, would a sophisticated bunch like NY Times be consistently having errors on their pages with java items? I think the problem really may be inside my computer. But where? How to fix it? It seems that on any given site, it's kind of "all-or-nothing." Its java things will either all work, or virtually none will work, but occasionally I do get to a site with one java item that won't function properly. Quite often it is a picture that won't load, even if I try to manually command it to load. Of course, they don't tell you WHICH item is having the error, except in geekspeak. Which helps a dufus like me a whole lot, of course. Real Player also sometimes seems to utilize java; I've gotten a few jjava error messages from trying to use it. I hate Real Player too. It's a monumental greed on the Web, and is maximally intrusive. It forces itself to load when you reboot, and you can't deselect this in the options. I have the free version and wouldn't pay them a cent for the other one. They're too greedy. Windows Media Player works as well or better, and doesn't intrude. Please, can someone help me get my renegade java to function properly?
By: wnross	Date: 16/09/2003 10:47:00		Type : Comment
I understand your frustration, but it's not you, its the website. "Why, then, would a sophisticated bunch like NY Times be consistently having errors on their pages with java items? " Because they don't test their code. Like any other group of amateurs, "print" based publishers know very little about software quality assurance or testing. Calling them "sophisticated" is at best an unwarrented flattery. Exceptions to the rule exist. Good luck finding them. About the problems: First thing to note is that the problems you are seeing are not Java based. Many websites use an interactive language confusingly named "Javascript" (Or JScript if you're an annoying billionaire on the west coast). IE6 Has broken compatibility with a lot of Javascript based sites and the result is the error's you are seeing. If you are using XP unfortunately you have no recourse, otherwise re-install IE5/IE5.5 to see the sites without errors. Alternately install a proper CSS level 2 browser like MozillaFirebird, Mozilla, Opera, or Netscape 7. At least the pages will work for a change and the error messages are hidden from view. (<A HREF="http://www.mozilla.org">http://www.mozilla.org</a>, <A HREF="http://www.opera.com">http://www.opera.com</a>, <A HREF="http://www.netscape.com">http://www.netscape.com</a>) Alternately contact the publishers, Identify the failed pages, and tell them you work for a large fortune-500 company.

By: VGR	Date: 17/09/2003 19:03:00		Type : Comment
Please use Mozilla Firebird to test javascript /DHTML conformity of a site. IE6 "console" is crap, as the rest of IE6 by the way.

By: Exceter	Date: 17/09/2003 19:04:00		Type : Comment
>> Needless to say, I HATE JAVA! Now, now... You are overreacting... These pages that give you java errors, are they JavaScript errors or Java errors? Are there any exceptions posted in your JVM(Java Virtual Machine)? An icon for it usually appears in the system tray, on the windows platform anyway... Also, how fast is your internet connection? BTW, you are complaining about they ineptitude of java on a site that is written in java. :-) Exceter

By: VGR	Date: 17/09/2003 19:17:00		Type : Comment
javaSCRIPT like VBS versus VB Java is server-side, javascript is client-side

By: Exceter	Date: 17/09/2003 20:14:00		Type : Comment
Java can be client side or server side depending on how the code is written. Besides, I still havn't heard which sites are causing these errors, so I'm trying to keep my mind open to all possibilities, and whether they are, in fact, problems with the Java code or if it's a Javascript problem. Exceter

By: wnross	Date: 17/09/2003 20:51:00		Type : Comment
Exceter: I've seen the pages he's complaining about, its poorly written javascript, it barely runs under Mozilla 1.4 much less IE6 -Bill

By: Exceter	Date: 17/09/2003 20:59:00		Type : Comment
Okay, I can accept that. fastermx, if the problem is poorly written JavaScript then I fail to see why you should blame the language when the author of the code is clearly to blame. Doing so is a little like saying that the english language is hard to understand based upon essays which were written by a person who could neither spell or determine the function of a spell checker... Okay, maybe that was a little unfair to the author of that code but you get the idea. Exceter

By: fastermx	Date: 22/09/2003 20:07:00		Type : Comment
Wow, it's so nice that you've sent me these suggestions. Okay, these are mostly javascript errors, but on some pages, I didn't take note. On NY Times, they ARE javascript errors. And it isn't just some of them, it's all of them, all the time, every day - none ever work. At least they're consistent... I have Opera, and tried it. It did nothing. No response except some blinking, but maybe I haven't configured Opera properly, because I almost never use it. Does it come with its own java, the way Quicktime does? And, by the way, if I allow Quicktime's java on my machine, does its "QT Java" or "JavaSoft" muscle in on the Microsoft java and take over? Why must there be more than one kind of java out there, anyway? Are we supposed to choose from among them? And why don't any of the people dispensing these various javas explain better about this, so we can choose wisely? My worst java problems are on the NY Times site. If the problems are caused by them, it means all of their javascript pop_me_up thingies are scripted wrong. And it means that virtually everyone who reads NY Times on the web is having the same problem. Sophisticated or not, I doubt NY Times would allow their millions of readers to have a problem, every day, with every one of their javascript links, and neither know about it or do something to fix the problem. It's a lovely way to lose most of their readers. I doubt they'd let that happen. One poorly-written script, sure. A few of them, even a few dozen, perhaps. All? No way. Especially for months on end, every day. "Object does not support this property or method." That's a common error message, and it's "Code 0," which is really helpful to people like me, of course. What does it mean? That the javascript object doesn't support its own properties and methods? Sure...that makes a whole lot of sense... Is there a place to find what Code 0 means? Of course not. You're just supposed to know, and if you don't, you just don't count. Is it like with Real Player, where its .rbn extension can only be read by those who get the paid-for Real Player? I have the free version, and clicking these .rbn's brings up the player (at great cost to memory), and I'm then told that I can have it if I pay them first. Then I can't get the program off my start menu without reinitiating. Is it possible that these javascript pop_me_ups are somehow connected to my having the free Real Player? They don't use Real Player, but that doesn't have to mean anything in the internet world. Oh, wnross, I like your mindset. You've got a cute sense of humor. Keep up the good work. Sadly, Netscape is out. I used it over a year and it crashed me often. I'd be willing to try the Mozilla Firebird. But since Mozilla was, I think, the originator of Go-Zilla, which was one of the biggest spy-bot producers ever, I'm not sure I think well of "things Mozilla." Is it another browser, like Opera? I'm not wild about Opera, but I have to admit it has some nice features. Except for all the headroom it takes for the ads. IE6 has the great virtue of being free, and I have the great misfortune of being poor. Exceter, you mentioned that I should check my Java virtual machine. I would, but don't have a clue how to do it, or what I should be looking FOR. Nor would I be likely to understand anything it says to me. I guess I have it. But it doesn't make its presence known to me. Can you tell me how to check this virtual machine? I don't know how to examine or utilize .vxd files directly. If that's what you mean, all is lost. I'm hopelessly deficient. Mea culpa. A site I visited once told me I had to download this virtual machine, so I did. But its location on my system is unrevealed sacrosanct knowledge, only given to the cognoscienti. I'm barely conscious, much less cogno-anything, so I don't qualify, and am thus consigned to the level of the unwashed masses. Pity me. But there is a burning question. Why would people write javascript that java can't read? Isn't that sort of like defeating the whole purpose of java? Like writing a version of English that English-speaking people can't read? If java can't read javascripts, what can? Visual Basic? C++? Cobol? Sanscrit?? Writing something that can't be read strikes me as supremely stupid. Is Quicktime java a kind of "fake java," then, which contains a strong bias toward the use of their player, for example? Is it possible I need somebody else's version of fake java in order for my browser to read these items on NY Times? Is it any wonder I'm going berzerk? Dohhh. And did I mention that I stand in awe of people who can get deep into the guts of programming? To me it must take the mind of an Einstein. No, more than that, because even I can understand relativity. Now, where words are concerned, I've noticed that many of you programmers are a bit short on the uptake, so if any of you want a small piece of English editing done, it's the least I can do to help you out, to say thanks for your help here. I'm an author, and language is where I shine. But NOT programming language. That's another thing altogether. Something not like life, as we know it, something...other-than. It's the great unknowable thing that rules the hard-drive, which contains most of my brains. I'd call that vulnerability, wouldn't you? Thanks for the help you've already given me. I've got some clues now and might do some grousing to Microsoft, NY Times, and other sources. That won't bring up these javascript interactive links, though.

By: Exceter	Date: 22/09/2003 20:32:00		Type : Answer
I think you are a little confused. Java does NOT interpret javascript. They are totally different languages. The browser interprets JavaScript not Java. The Java virtual machine will download and run a Java applet for you if the website happens to be using one. That's what I meant by Java can be client side as a Java applet actually runs on the client machine. >> If java can't read javascripts, what can? Visual Basic? C++? Cobol? Sanscrit?? The interpretation of Javascript is done by the browser. Therefore, the interpretation is done it whatever language was used to write the browser, which is probably C++ but that does not aid us in this discussion. >> Can you tell me how to check this virtual machine? If you have a windows operating system you should be able to get to it buy clicking on, Start>Settings>Control Panel>Add/Remove Programs. It should appear in the list of installed applications. >> But NOT programming language. Why not? It's very logical and I must say that all programs are compiled from source files which contain grammatically perfect code as the compiler will spit errors at you otherwise. Are you good at math? People who are good at math make good programmers as well. Understanding syntax is one thing. Understanding concepts which can be used to create useable programs is quite another. Additionally, modern computer programming has been further complicated by the operating system. In years past, the operating system mearly provided routines which your program could call. However, with the advent of modern protected mode systems. Your program actually has to interact with the OS. This makes things harder because you need to know how the OS works in addition to understanding how to write the program. ITs kinda like dealing with a burocracy... >> I'm an author, and language is where I shine. But NOT programming language. I've gotten B- in every english class I've ever taken, therefore, I'd appreciate it if you weren't too hard on my grammar/spelling as I don't take the time to run my posts through Word. On a side note, do you write any poetry? I don't but I have come to the understanding that poetry is nothing more than an abstraction of life and that this is not altogether different from object oriented design, if that at all interests you. Pardon my slightly off topic remarks. Javascript and browser issues are not my specialty. Exceter

By: VGR	Date: 22/09/2003 20:39:00		Type : Assist
to expand a little bit more, me who had only A's in litterary & human sciences matters, it's not uncompatible to have BOTH a logical mind (thus able to "go deep to the guts of programming") and a poetic/Littéraire<I don't know how to translate> one. To "go deep into...", it's very simple in fact. You've to choose a good starting point, analyse it, then go deeper and deeper until you encounter... nothing or the Truth. Like analysing a website : start in index.* (* = htm, html, php, etc), write down links encountered and the logic followed, then examine one by one until you did them all. Not very difficult. In fact, Einstein would not have been interested at all in programming :D

By: wnross	Date: 22/09/2003 20:57:00		Type : Assist
Hahaha :) Trust me, Go-Zilla and Mozilla have NOTHING in common. NOTHING, trust me. And youre hatred of Go-Zilla could use some work, install it on 150 of your friends and coworkers and then watch the fun. Agreed on Netscapes first 6.0 release, they couldn't wait two months for the bugs to be worked out. Sigh. (Historical note: Netscape uses Mozilla Code, Netscape 6.0 was Mozilla 0.93, 0.95 (released ~ Feb That year) was sufficiently better to make me permanently switch browsers) > I'd be willing to try the Mozilla Firebird. " A Lean, Mean Browsing Machine. Read why you should switch today, and why a leading technology commentator has made it his default browser." <A HREF="http://www.joelonsoftware.com/news/20030601.html">http://www.joelonsoftware.com/news/20030601.html</a> > Except for all the headroom it takes for the ads. Agreed on the ads. I wanted to be as bipartisan as I could so I included it in the list. > IE6 has the great virtue of being free, and I have the great misfortune of being poor. Mozilla, Firebird, and Netscape are all free. Other Comments: -------------------------------- Seriously fastermx, Java and Javascript have nothing in common, it was bad marketing by Marc Andressen of Netscape Communications in 1995 which has led to this. Quicktime, Real Audio, they are plugins. They also have nothing to do with Java OR Javascript. * Plugins are programs which must be installed into the browser. These programs allow the viewing of special types of content (like movies, flash images, 3D Worlds and so on). Ex: Flash/ShockWave, QuickTime, RealAudio * Java is a special container where programmers can write programs which can be downloaded safely without risk of virus or system takeover. * Javascript/ECMAScript is a capability of the browser to change html content, validate web forms, and interact with other web pages. I think my point is: please don't wreck you machine trying to fix this. Altering DLL's and VXD's will only give you a crash course on "How to rebuild a Computer". Enjoying this thread and hoping for more posts: -Bill

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